Elect vs. Free Will

It's kind of ridiculous that I'm still struggling with this issue after like, more than a year. But I'm basically horrible at doing research, so I haven't really done anything about it. Cuz I fail that way. At any rate, I just came across from an old e-mail that Sarah sent me about the elect. I guess I should specify. I believe in the elect. I just don't believe that God chooses His elect. I don't think.

I can't say that I have any good argument. Because I don't really argue. I'm bad at it. I hate it. I don't debate either. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's bad, if not maybe wrong. Because it takes the focus off God and starts being an "I'm going to prove you wrong!" thing, which then becomes about ourselves, using the cover of "religious debate." Talking about religion or Godly things or whatever doesn't necessarily make it right, I don't think. A huge part of it is attitude, and I think that when we debate, we start to develop a bad attitude toward whatever it is that we're talking about. Not to mention, VERY few people are convinced through debate. Maybe from listening to two other people debate, but NOT from debating themselves. The person who "loses" the debate just ends up completely pissed off and bitter and determined to prove themselves right. The only things sown are resentment and a bad attitude toward the whole issue. I know this from personal experience.

ANYWAY. That was really off topic. As far as the whole issue of Free Will versus Elect. You can go on and on and on about the issue, and there are verses that support both sides. As well as people who vehemently argue either side of the coin, which doesn't really help me at all. All the people that I trust are on different sides of the coin. The thing that gets me most, though, even though I haven't done much research, is that it seems to me that the idea of God choosing His "elect" completely goes against everything I know about His character. And I did actually do research on this one, because I believe that I needed to know God's character more in depth, because really, the issue of Free Will vs. Election is an issue of God's character.

He is a God of mercy, which my mom's concordance (no idea what kind it is) defines as "Compassion, pity for the undeserving and the guilty." Verses I had backing it up were Psalm 103:8 and Luke 6:36. So you could say that the "non-elect" are undeserving. But Christians are just as guilty! "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." There's nothing to set us apart that God would choose us.

Then God is also just, which Webster defines as "Righteous or fair; impartial; upright," with the verses Deuteronomy 32:4 and Hosea 14:9, which my Dad's NAS says "right" but my NIV used "just."

Then I also had loving, which Webster even defined as "God's tender regard and concern for all human beings." ALL human beings! And didn't God so love the WORLD? The whole world, in its entirety.

I guess I did more research than I thought. I"m looking through my little notebook that I was using, and I had a study on The Beginning, too. In a nutshell, it was that God created the world perfectly, and without sin. This is what I have written.

"We assume from numerous passages in the Bible (look at anything in Proverbs, as well as Psalm 5:4-6) that God hates sin. Why would He create something he hates? He wouldn't. Not only that, but I don't think He COULD, because He is holy. (Psalm 99:9)

"So God did not directly create sin (?) So then, how did it come to be? God created something (man) that had the capacity and ability to sin. Who could bring evil into a perfect world, and cause the fall of mankind on one simple CHOICE: To eat or not to eat?

"Look at the tree of knowledge between good and evil. Isn't there a choice there? God didn't force Adam and Eve to sin. He CANNOT force us into sin because He is holy.

"If God wanted us to all be for Him by force (and He DOES want all mankind to know him (2 Peter 3:9)) why was there a choice at all? Because God didn't want to force us. He wanted us to CHOOSE Him."

Now I asked someone who was pro-Elect, and that person told me that time changed, that in bringing sin into the world, Adam and Even essentially made us incapable of choosing God. Maybe things did, but the framework is still the same, isn't it? The choice there was still essentially between God and the World, and it's the same today.

I also had a couple verses. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 says "They perish because they refused to love truth and so be saved."
- People die because they refuse to love truth....Doesn't refusal pertain to a choice?
- God didn't not ALLOW them to be saved. The way I read it, it says that had they loved truth, they would have been saved.
* The pro-Elect would tell you that they aren't capable of loving the truth because man loves darkness and yadda yadda.
I also had 1 Timothy 2:3 & 4 - "This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth."
- God wants ALL MEN to be saved. You can't argue that he is speaking about only His "elect." It states very clearly "all men."

1 Timothy 2:6A - "..."Who gave Himself as a ransom for all men..."
- I believe this verse basically speaks against limited atonement...

1 Timothy 4:10B - "Who is the Savior of all men, especially those who believe."
- The savior of all men...God's grace covers all men, and He saves those who believe...Not those He chooses to make believe...In Him, not like, make believe like pretending. Haha.


Anyway. That was what I had in my little notebook. I don't know why I felt a need to put that out there but please, please, PLEASE, offer comments, whatever. Reading material on the subject would be GREAT. Thanks guys. Love you!